In the wake of the decision by the Infamous 172 Sulkies to miss the open goal that is the present day Tory “Government”, we had an online chat. Well, there were dozens, as a kind of collective consciousness experiment and very effective affirmative and contributive action. But this was so much fun. Elleanne had brought up Jess Phillips treachery. Conversation drifted, then:
Robert Shaw On the subject of civility… The real point is that 80% of Labour MPs lack confidence in him as a leader. If he can’t command the support of the majority of his MPs, whose mandate totals about 9 million votes, that looks like a pretty big failure of political leadership. I agree it’s a shame because he’s a good politician with good ideas. But if he stays, the consequences for the country and the party will be much worse than if he resigns. A credible leader has to look beyond himself and his own supporters.
Chris Hemmings If they choose to lack confidence in OUR choice, they are free to leave. This is not ten years later, this is the first year, for heaven’s sake.
Robert Shaw How many of you are there? 500,000? Maybe more? Maybe less? That’s his mandate to be leader. The MPs have 9 million votes between them. That’s their mandate to be MPs. Reconciling the two mandates requires strong and effective political leadership. It seems he hasn’t got it and he doesn’t believe he needs it. He talks of not betraying the members who voted for him. On the other hand, he seems willing to betray the 9 million who voted for Labour MPs.
Chris Hemmings You could easily say those 9 million lost their votes. They did not win, so their wish for a Milibandian compromised blue tint centrist government failed. Many, many of those who had no choice at that election voted elsewise, not at all or reluctantly for labour. I was that latter ( no Green candidate).
Chris Hemmings Corbyn’s ideas are not a betrayal. How can you conceive such a statement, Robert?
Robert Shaw No such statement Chris.
Chris Hemmings “He seems willing to betray the 9 million voters who voted for labour MPs”.
Robert Shaw “Corbyn’s ideas are not a betrayal.” I agree. The betrayal is in his refusal to accept that 80% of MPs say he should resign. 80% of 9 million if you prefer = 7.2 million. That’s a democratic mandate too.
Chris Hemmings And this is a circular discussion. I dealt with there being no Milligovernment. That mandate died on election day last year.
Chris Hemmings It can never happen. So we chose something a whole lot better.
Robert Shaw I’m talking about the votes cast in 2015 GE. Anyway, it’s about politics too. If you don’t have the party and the PLP, you can’t be leader. You can’t do it. As we’re seeing.
Chris Hemmings I spoke of 2015 too, of course. That was my point. There is no Millibism. It died. Along with Brownishness and the hideous Bliarism. Stone cold dead and buried, only now, sadly, the crypts are opening and the foul skeletons of a hideous era are coming back to haunt us.
Chris Hemmings Jeremy does have a party – the members, the Unions and 40 of his MPs. So, out of those millions, that’s 172 naysayers. And we have no inkling as to what in what Jeremy and all us Corbynites are saying they disagree with – apart from bombing Syria.
1 – I suppose you’d say they got a mandate to support bombing Syria, Robert?
2 – I suppose you’d say they have a mandate to drive millions out of their wonderful homes and homeland to become refugees which David Camoron wont let rest in our country, Robert? I could go on……..
Robert Shaw 172 ‘naysayers’ and the 7.2 million people who voted for them…
Chris Hemmings And round and round and round. Wow, this will keep us going for weeks.
Actually, this is exactly as the sad, passe 172 act, as well as so many other similarly ringing with cognitive dissonance. They just repeat as nauseum that which was soundly answered so much earlier.
The art of conversation is so buried.
Robert Shaw Good luck with all that.
Chris Hemmings What exactly?e MPs no longer represent what their members want then they are an irrelevance … I don’t think Robert has ever jumped onto my wall and said anything that wasn’t stirring and combattive and I am not really a fan of the right wing stuff so that is probably an unfriending which is looming now … wish him well but this is not his natural habitat …
Robert Shaw If you can deselect 172 MPs (or they resign) and replace them with your preferred candidates and then get enough people to vote for them, you’ll be right.
Chris Hemmings People normally vote for the party not the person. That’s a basic rule. Yes, over time, personal loyalties build, but party is crucial.
So, yes, the 172 could very quickly and efficiently be replaced. You couldn’t put a word on their ears, could you? Every little nudge helps……
Robert Shaw As I say, good luck with all that.
Chris Hemmings Yeah, OK, thanks for you good wishes. Interesting chat. Democracy should be open and not planned in dark rooms by frustrated, bad losers.
Elleanne Green I have unfriended RS
Chris Hemmings You mean he wouldn’t jump! I see a common theme he shares with The 172…….